A spoiler warning for a documentary is odd, because you could easily look up the real story, but since we’re a movie site we’re doing our diligence to warn potential viewers. You should definitely see The Overnighters. I reviewed it at Los Angeles Film Festival this year. The story of Pastor Jay Reinke moved me as he tried to help men who came to Williston, ND for oil work. Pastor Jay gave these men lodging in his church, and some in his home, but when the Williston community became aware of their criminal backgrounds, they made it difficult for Jay to continue his program of support.
I did ask where Jay is today, which informs how the events of the film play out, and certainly questions about hostile encounters reveal specifics of the film. Use your discretion if you want to read about filmmaker Jesse Moss before or after you see The Overnighters, which expands to Los Angeles theaters this weekend.
Related: LAFF 2014 Review: ‘The Overnighters’
CraveOnline: Did you ever feel threatened when certain people went off on Jay?
Jesse Moss: I will say that I considered my own health and safety to be an issue when this crazy woman pulled a gun on him and threatened to shoot us both. That was a moment of some concern. Williston’s a very destabilized place. When I first started going up there, it made me a bit scared, I have to be honest. It’s rough around the edges and there’s been a lot of, it felt like, menace, violence and fear. I felt very safe being in the church. That was a wonderful and warm place to hang my hat, which I did for six months. I slept in the church.
So you were an Overnighter?
Well, I would never describe myself as an Overnighter, but I did ask Jay if I could stay there because I needed a place to stay and he offered me one. So I did sleep there for many months, and yet I would never say that I have risked as much as any of those people who were there, who I would call The Overnighters. I took risks making this film but I’m careful not to describe myself as an Overnighter. I don’t think that’s accurate.
So the woman with the gun ended up signing a release form?
Let’s just say that I have her implied consent. Which is to say, I made it very clear that I was filming.
Alan seemed like a volatile guy at certain points. Did that ever give you pause?
Actually, Alan was extremely warm and open and generous with me. When I first met him, he was Jay’s right hand and I remember more the times that Alan let me bum a cigarette or found me a place to put my cot or open a door for me when the doors were locked to the church. That’s what Alan did for me. When I think about the duality of so many of the men in this film who are good and who are bad, I think that Alan did some pretty bad stuff in his life. He spent a lot of time in prison which he admits to, but I think there was good in Alan and I think that’s the tragedy of him and of this film.
For guys who found Williston a last resort, they really did come there looking for a second chance, looking for a job, looking for redemption and salvation. I think for a moment there was promise. I didn’t set out to follow people who I didn’t believe would succeed. I didn’t set out to make a tragedy. I just found one and I think Alan, it was very hard to see a man that I got to know and to care about and spend time with, lose their grip and lose those opportunities.
In some ways, I think it reveals both the romantic allure of a boomtown which is this limitless promise of reinvention and the reality which is that those things are much harder to achieve and you can’t outrun who you are, what your burdens are or what mistakes you’ve made in your life or what your pathologies are. Whatever form those mistakes take in your life, you can’t leave them behind easily.
“You don’t wish misfortune or pain upon the people who you film.”
It seemed like Alan blamed Jay at a certain point for not sticking by him further.
This is something Jay and I talked about a lot. Because so many of the men who found their way to the Overnighters program, this was a last resort, they aren’t the kinds of people who had big bank accounts or alternatives. They were really desperate and what that means is that when you lose that grip, that opportunity, there’s really no soft landing. And Jay was the person who was there for them when they needed somebody, and I think when things didn’t work out for them, he’s the person they lashed out at. Often they didn’t have other people in their lives. I think sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly, he bore the brunt of that pain. He took in a lot of pain and gave a lot of love. I think that wore heavily on him but I think it reflects his strength, that he did it for so long and with such conviction.
When Jay actually got heated, was that tense for you because this was a guy who seemed like he’d always be patient?
Yeah, Jay had gotten emotional before. Jay always struck me as something of a, I wouldn’t say confrontational, but he crossed boundaries. He fought for what he believed in. He was willing to go toe to toe with people. I like that about Jay. It’s why I was drawn to him and why I wanted to make this movie about him in large part. I did see Jay also really shut down sometimes. He went through so much and I think in retrospect, actions, choices became a little bit clearer to me perhaps. I care deeply about Jay. I still do. We’re very close. He’s been a part of the film’s public life. You don’t wish misfortune or pain upon the people who you film. And yet I was there for the very hard moments. Despite that I think the film hopefully has a powerful and a positive message that shines through those very painful scenes.
The biggest theme that resonated with me is that doing good is complicated. You can’t just give people homes and second chances without dealing with the community at large. Is that an important macro theme of the movie?
If I had to say what the one theme of the film is, I would say just that. This is a film about what it means to truly love thy neighbor. Whether you’re a Christian or not, that question, that moral injunction is something that we all have cause to reflect on. Those are not easy choices to help people, because when we help him, we take away from her. We don’t all have a limitless abundance of love and things to give. To see Jay wrestle with this question, that’s what struck me as someone who didn’t grow up in the church and why I was drawn to Jay’s struggle. I feel like this is a universal question and Jay was living it out in a very pronounced and very dramatic way. When I think about what this film is about, I think it’s about trying to help people.
There are some philosophies that there is limitless abundance if you believe in it. Maybe this story is evidence that there are limits.
Well, I mean, I think that Jay’s an inspiration in some ways. Most of us aren’t superhuman. If confronted with 1,000 desperate men on our doorstep, most of us would turn them away. It was an unusual experience to see somebody do something so extraordinary. It gives you a kind of insight into the capacity of human action. I’ve seen a lot in my life and I was just struck. But I think that Jay would be the first to point out there are selfish reasons we give and help. I’m not sure I believe in true altruism. There are often many factors that go into those decisions. Jay has ego and likes to be needed. Those things are all subject to perhaps deeper psychological analysis. That’s just to say that this is a film about good and bad, and about the gray and not the binary black and white in which portraits are often drawn.
I did notice a Chik-fil-A mug in one scene. Their politics aren’t quite as tolerant as his. Was that just an artifact in his house or did you ever discuss that conflict?
I think it’s an interesting point, which is Jay and I come from very different worlds. I didn’t grow up in the church. I’m not Christian. Our politics are very different. And there were things that we didn’t talk about in our relationship. I think we found common ground and we came to trust each other, and yet we disagree about things and we didn’t talk about them. We didn’t feel like we needed to argue. I wasn’t trying to win him over to my side. He never tried to preach to me or convert me, bring me into the church. He really respected me and the position that I came from. That was interesting to him.
Likewise, I was very interested in his principles and his faith and his congregation. I think those things you don’t talk about are sometimes just as interesting as the things you do talk about. For me, that’s the opportunity of documentary work. It’s to go places and to meet people who I don’t normally meet and see in my everyday San Francisco living, progressive documentary making reality.
“If confronted with 1,000 desperate men on our doorstep, most of us would turn them away.”
I think what most people who see The Overnighters will wonder is where is Pastor Jay now?
Jay is still in Williston. He’s doing okay. He’s working in the oil fields actually. He works for a company that provides oil pipe supplies. That’s been hard for him. I think that he’s struggling with that work but he’s an optimist and he’s tough. I think that if he would have left Williston, his life might be a little bit easier, but I think he’s really challenged the community to accept him. I think that is really consistent with what he preached and what he practiced and what you see in The Overnighters, that he really wants the community to take people in. Whether they have burdens or not. So that’s how I see his decision. I think it’s really a testament to his convictions.
Is he still with his family?
Well, I think that his life and some of those big questions for him are not fully resolved. I don’t know when and in what way they will resolve. As you might imagine, life is long and this is a particularly difficult and challenging period for him and his family. He does have two younger children who are still in school in Williston and I think he’s really devoted to being a present father for them. He and Michelle, they’re a family that is used to confronting some tough questions. At least they’re able to talk with each other very honestly about what they’ve been through and what the future holds.
Do you know what your next film is about?
Oh man, really just getting this one out in the world. This one took a lot out of me. This was so extraordinary to make. I’m just somehow not sure I could ever make a documentary that was as meaningful to make as this one for me and contained so much surprising life in it. I feel like maybe I need to make a fiction film. I’m not sure. I don’t know, make some money and work. It spoiled me. In all its difficulties, having so much freedom to pursue this story and make my own choices, it was a rare luxury even though we had no one behind us to make this.
Fred Topel is a staff writer at CraveOnline and the man behind Best Episode Ever. Follow him on Twitter at @FredTopel.
