If you ever have the opportunity to interview Tilda Swinton, I highly recommend you take it. The Oscar-winning star ofĀ Michael Clayton,Ā The Chronicles of Narnia,Ā Only Lovers Left AliveĀ and now MarvelāsĀ Doctor Strange is renowned for herĀ effervescent and thoughtful personality, and around here at least, for making awesome āfungiā puns.
As I entered the room, Tilda Swinton offered me a cup of coffee and immediately began re-arranging the chairs in the room, so that the set-up looked less like a āchess master table,ā and more like two people choosing to sit side-by-side in front of a fireplace. She seems satisfied, arguing thatĀ āHumans sit like this, I reckon.ā
And so we do, we sit down, and I immediately began gushing about Tilda SwintonāsĀ upcoming remake ofĀ Auntie Mame, directed by her longtime collaborator Luca Guadagnino, with whom she madeĀ The Bigger Splash andĀ I Am Love, and with whom she is also remaking ā or, as she puts it, doing a ācoverā of ā the classic Dario Argento horror nightmareĀ Suspiria. We talked about that too.
And of course we talked aboutĀ Doctor Strange, the ambitious, trippy and impressively mature new superhero film in which Tilda SwintonĀ plays The Ancient One, a bringer of enlightenment who has many secrets to reveal, about the universe and herself. Itās a role that comes with some controversy, and weāll learn her thoughts about that controversy too.
Doctor Strange arrives in theaters this week. But thisĀ interview with Tilda Swinton can be read right now.
Marvel Studios
Crave: I know Iām supposed to be here to talk about Doctor Strange but all I want to talk about is Auntie Mame.
Tilda Swinton: [Laughs.]
Because holy cow, thatās amazing. You get to be Auntie Mame! Is that not a sure thing yet? Are we still working on it?
Itās not shot yet. As you know until somethingās shot itās always hope, hope, hope, dream, dream, dream. Itās something weāve been thinking about for a few years now so Iām pretty confident weāll do it. Itās just a question of when.
I hope itās really soon. Itās interesting to me that you want to do a contemporary version of it. Do you feel like the recent collapse creates a good parallel [with the Great Depression]?
Itās a really interesting one. That book, I donāt know if youāve readā¦ Have you ever read the book itselfā¦?
Yes, Iāve read the book.
Yeah, because not everybody has of course. The book is so radical and so much about a kind of proper, liberal spirit, and it feels like itās time to remind people of what that is. So yeah, I feel weāre on the train with it. Iām really excited.
And youāre not going to do the musical?
Never say never. There are no plans. There are no plans to break into song. Weāll talk together when it happens.
Weād better. Iām stoked.
Sure. Iām thrilled.
Life is a banquet, damn it.
Thrilled. Iām very excited about it.
Marvel Studios
Was doing something like Doctor Strange equally thrilling?
Yeah! You bet! I mean, itās different because Auntie Mame is something thatās like a baby for me, where Luca [Guadagnino] and I have been talking about it for years, and now weāre talking with Annie Mumolo about it, so itās becoming a baby that weāre bringing up together. Whereas Doctor Strange kind of broke into my consciousness one day and invited me to join the circus. It wasnāt something I was cooking up myself, obviously. So I was really thrilled thatā¦ it never occurred to me that they would have a place for me in that universe, but they found something.
What was it about the part that attracted you, particular, as opposed to just the universe?
I mean, Scott [Derrickson] talked such a fascinating film, and I believe heās really delivered what he talked up, which is itās a new kind ofā¦ well, itās a multiverse. Itās sort stretching the universe into a multiverse for Marvel, and there was something about the superpowers being teachable, and teachable to humans, and The Ancient One being the teacher of palpable, important truths which resonate. Itās not just, āHere is a bit of spider venom and it will do this to you,ā or āHere is a particular magical potion that will do this to you.ā These are skills that we can actually [learn] ourselves and use in our own lives, and I thought that was really rad.
It is, but what I kind of liked about it was the idea that weāve had so many superhero stories that were about an individual, and we have a superhero story that is about ideas, and the idea that Doctor Strange is not inherently all that special.
Yeah, yeah.
I kind of admire that.
I agree, I think thatās very grown up. I mean, for a start he is a grown up, who has grown up problems and is up against grown up obstacles, and going about his response to those obstacles in a pretty run of the mill, human way. I mean, he makes the very human mistake of going into a kind of dark place when he faces these obstacles.
There is something āchange of lifeā about what he goes through with The Ancient One. She tickles him into seeing there is anotherĀ [way]. You can actually control your response to things, and you can decide to operate your mind powerfully. So he makes an adult choice. Thatās new. Thatās a completely new thing in the Marvel Universe.
In a way I think Marvelās superheroes tend to feel theyāre sort of at the mercy of their superpowers, whereas in this instance these superpowers are learned at a great price. Theyāre really acquired, and I donāt know, I think thatās really resonant. Itās sophisticated.
Marvel Studios
Itās empowering, really, the idea that itās a moral and philosophical choice. That you can go down a terrible path and say to yourself, āI choose not to anymore.ā
Yes, and for the reasons that, as she says very explicitly, āThe simplest and most significant lesson of all is that not about you.ā So to say to a superhero āitās not about you, actually,ā thatās really inverted the paradigm.
I admire that. I thought it was very mature. Did it surprise you that there was a backlash about the casting?
The interesting thing about the backlash to the casting is that it didnāt actually come with the casting, or indeed with the first trailer. I mean, my understanding is that the response to my castingā¦ which remember, people still havenāt seen the film and certainly hadnāt read the script, and donāt yet know why it was that Scott Derrickson asked me, or why it was that he rewrote the character from the original comic strips. All people had to go on was the comic strips. And even then, when the announcement was made of my casting, apparently people were generally supportive and at the same time, when the first trailer came out and they could see who I was and how I was playing it, it wasnāt a problem.
As I understand it there was this further outcry about, I think Ghost in the Shell, and maybe another film, that there was a feeling of appropriation, and we got caught in that crossfire, by which I was notā¦ I mean if you think about it, itās not surprising. But then itās based on a misunderstanding, which is that I was asked to play an Asian man, which I wasnāt. The part was rewritten for very sound reasons, which Scott Derrickson can explain to you, about not wanting to perpetuate rather offensive racial stereotypes as had been written in the original.
Itās a tricky position, because on one hand youāre called out for a stereotype and on the other hand youāre called out for taking a role out of [the hands of an Asian actor].
The truth is, both are true in the sense that there are not enough representations of the diverse universe in which we live, in mainstream Hollywood cinema. That is a huge truth and itās incredibly important that people speak very loudly about it, because until people speak loudly about it, it wonāt change. So that is a truth that is told clearly and by the way I am completely in support of.
At the same time thereās Doctor Strange and Doctor Strangeās project, and the decisions that were made by the director and the studio to re-frame this character, The Ancient One, which was made for very diverse reasons. Not only to stop perpetuating two rather offensive racial stereotypes of Asian characters ā one, the character that I play, and the character that Benedict Wong plays, who is a very servile character in the comic strips, is given a much more prominent and powerful position in this film ā but nobody seemed to notice, or very few people seemed to notice, that actually they were casting a Sorcerer Supreme as a woman, and for that matter as a woman about the age of 21 and not wearing a bikini.
You know, but all of these things are true. Itās true. Itās not a competition and I, personally, am all for people speaking loudly for more diverse representation. Itās what Iāve spent my entire career working within, a more diverse universe, but weāve done our thing for reasons that we felt were sound and we still feel are sound, and I really hope that when people see the film theyāll understand.
Marvel Studios
One of the things Iām looking forward to from you is the remake of Suspiria, which is another female-driven story originally, and the new cast looks fantastic. In your eyes, what is the significance of remaking Suspiria now?
You know, āremakingā is not really the kind of lingo we go for. We are inspired by the same root but weāre not reallyā¦ weāre doing a cover, weāre not remaking really. In fact there are significant differences in our screenplay already. So itās just, weāre covering with different instruments I would say.
Okay, so what sort of differences? Is this as dramatic as, likeā¦?
Itās still a horror film! I mean, itās still a horror film that will ā we hope ā be frightening. Itās still about danceā¦
Iām trying to think of a dramatic coverā¦
A dramatic coverā¦?
Like, one that was really excellent, like Tori Amosās cover of that Eminem song [ā97 Bonnie and Clydeā] where she turned it into something more plaintive.
Yeah, or even you know, did you hear for example Michael Stipeās āMan Who Sold The World?ā You know, itās that rare thing where you hear something fresh again. We recently did it, Luca Guadagnino and I, we recently did it with a cover of a film called La Piscine, which is very beloved in France, which made a film inspired by that called A Bigger Splash. Which is really different but is absolutely based on La Piscine, and we had the same thing. People were nervous about a remake of La Piscine and now people go, āOh, itās a completely different film!ā We said, āWe never said we were going to make the same film.ā There are remakes and then there are these covers and weāre kind of more in the cover business.
What is it about Luca Guadagnino that keeps you coming back?
Heās my pal. Heās my friend. But I donāt make friends with all my pals. He is a great filmmaker and heās someone who I have a kind of filmmaking relationship with, which means we continually kind of dare each other into new adventures. And so Suspiria is next and Auntie Mame is down the line, and on it goes.
Top Photo: Axelle/Bauer-Griffin/FilmMagic
William Bibbiani (everyone calls him āBibbsā) is Craveās film content editor and critic. You can hear him every week onĀ The B-Movies PodcastĀ andĀ Canceled Too Soon, and watch him on theĀ weekly YouTubeĀ seriesĀ Most Craved,Ā Rapid ReviewsĀ andĀ What the Flick. Follow his rantings on Twitter atĀ @WilliamBibbiani.